- What do you love about being a woman? I think that women can do and be anything. We can be soft and tough, beautiful and strong. We can be mothers and leaders and we can wear red silk and high heels or camouflage and boots. We can compose music, bake cakes, build bridges, command ships, and go into space. We can be doctors or nurses, privates or generals. We can design clothes or design buildings, drive car pools or drive race cars. What’s not to like?
- You are a retired Naval Officer. What drew you to this career path? Idealism, romantic notions, the possibility of adventure. I grew up watching WWII movies with my Father (he is a WWII vet of North Africa and Italy). I thought being in the military was something special. After college (and 3 changes of major) I didn’t know what to do with my life. I saw a recruiting poster with a woman in uniform with the slogan, “Be someone special, Be a Navy Officer” so I visited the recruiter thinking I would do this for three years while I figured out what I wanted to do with my life. One thing after another and 20 years later I retired as a Commander.
- Do you consider yourself a Female Naval Officer or simply a Naval Officer? I am a retired Naval Officer. I was NEVER a female naval officer. I find that as negating as “male” nurse.
- What was the attitude towards women in that culture when you first began, and did you experience any changes through the years? It was a bit tough on both the Navy side and the civilian side. In 1974 there were still some negative attitudes around because of Viet Nam so the reception from civilians ranged from curiosity at a woman in uniform to animosity towards anyone in uniform. Inside the Navy there were men who accepted women and those who did not. I had men tell me I didn’t belong in their Navy and that they would do anything to see me (any woman) out of their Navy. We had to walk narrow lines. Not approachable enough and you were a cold stuck-up bitch….too approachable and your subordinates would ask you on a date. I had my name written on bathroom walls with pejorative attributions. I had men refuse to salute me and who said they would not take orders from a woman. I was accused of being in the Navy because I was a lesbian and simultaneously because I was simply looking for a husband. On annual evaluations being aggressive was necessary for a man and negative for a woman. Then things began to change gradually, a bit at a time. Women who entered the Navy took on assignments that men did not want and turned them into meaningful and essential jobs that commanding officers valued. Then the men wanted those jobs back. We simply did our jobs well, sought challenging assignments, proved ourselves, worked for changes in policy and just kept working away at the system. I saw so many changes within the Navy and within the larger society. However, what I did was fairly ordinary compared to so many other women who really made inroads that allowed for the opportunities that exist today. We all served because we believed that women have an equal responsibility to serve as do men and that we can do it equally well.
- You have a daughter Lydia. Tell us a little about your relationship. I could write books about Lydia, she is amazing and everything I ever imagined a daughter would be. I have learned so much from her over the years. She inspires me to be creative and to be comfortable in my own skin. She teaches me about the world, about music, art, books, pop culture. Mostly, she teaches me about loving and living as a better person. She is the most interesting person I know.
- What did you learn about yourself, your own capacity and strength, in being a mother while also working as a Naval Officer? Being a mother has been the most amazing experience of my life. I was lucky because Lydia was easy in so many ways and I was a more senior officer when she was born. I had more control over my time and more resources available. I did make choices that put her before career choices. Perhaps I could have achieved more, done more, seen more if I had let her come second more often .It would be worth little now if I had jeopardized my relationship with her. She was always my first priority. For the first six years of her life, I was in practice a single mother so my day was split between Navy officer, mother, sometime wife, and if any time was left– Onedia. I sometimes had to struggle to keep Onedia in the picture. I was also struggling with the emerging contradictions I felt between the policies and attitudes of the military and my developing social and political convictions.
- What words of wisdom would you share with women today who have young children and are concerned about getting it “right”? Remember that the job is to prepare your children for the world they will live in and to be good people in that world. Don’t get hung up in the details. Teach them to solve problems. Hug, kiss, cuddle and laugh with your children. Tell them that you love them. Tell them you are sorry when you mess up. Keep your sense of humor. That’s enough!
- How did your own mother influence “who you wanted to be when you grew up”? Tough question. There is so much about my mother that I admire. She was a child of the depression growing up on the Arkansas/Louisiana border. She had a difficult time growing up in a family that never appreciated her. She quit high school to marry and then by the time she was 22 she was divorced with a 2 year old daughter, my sister. Her parents treated her badly for that. I think mostly, I did not want to end up as my mother. I wanted adventure, travel, education, a career and possibly a family. Then after I was in the Navy she got her GED and went to nursing school and recreated herself. I was very proud of her accomplishment.
- Do you consider yourself a feminist and what does this word mean to you? I do, but some might not. I am a feminist in that I do not want anyone telling me what I must do or cannot do because of my gender. I certainly don’t want them to tell my daughter that. For that matter I don’t want them telling anyone what to do based on anything other than interest, aptitude and skills. We should not be limited by labels. I was told way too often in my younger years that I was a “women’s libber” and I did not disagree.
- In what ways do you think progress has been made for women in the choices they have now and what, in your opinion, has been the greatest catalyst for this change in the past twenty years? There are so very few endeavors, careers, or areas that lack opportunities for women, but there are some obstacles that persist. Women still struggle with the balance of personal and work lives. The “old boys” clubs persist. During my years in the Navy I noted that policy changes began to come along as men with policy authority began having wives with demanding careers and especially when they married military women. These men began taking time off to go to school or to take their kids to the doctor. Later their daughters wanted to do things that were pushing the boundaries. When issues and policies began affecting these men’s lives they finally saw a need to change. Another catalyst I have noted is that there are now a couple of generations of men who have been raised by women who had careers or had feminist attitudes. My husband (who is 12 years younger than me) had a mother (and father) who had feminist attitudes and was raised in a very liberal and activist family environment. He has very different attitudes from men who were of a more conventional upbringing. My brother born in the 60s grew up with sisters who were professionals. Even my son-in-law who is from Morocco was raised by a woman who was “modern” and this is reflected in his attitudes. So, as much as we might not like to say it, success will continue because we are teaching our husbands, sons, brothers, and fathers to have different attitudes and different behaviors to women. Women must continue to expect and demand the opportunities and the respect that we merit lest we lose ground for our daughters and their daughters.
- What women do you admire and look to for inspiration? Madeleine Albright, Katherine Hepburn, Aung San Suu Kyi, and Rosa Parks come to mind. I also admire three women from my family: Lydia Frost Hayes, Rosa Frost Philpot and Lydia Beyoud. Actually, I admire women who are willing to march to their own drum and unafraid to be a bit out of step with he people around them. They speak their minds, stand their ground and follow their own notions of what is right regardless of popular thought. I think these women represent those qualities in different ways. My grandmother and her sister also represent two of the sweetest and most loving women I can think of and these traits seem to have been passed along to Lydia.
- In addition to being a photographer you make jewelry, paint and write. How have you created space and time over the years for your creative pursuits? Actually, I never really believed I was creative except with ideas. It was my daughter and husband who kept telling me that I am. I was always interested in writing and managed a creative writing course about 10 years ago. I wrote a couple of short stories but mostly my creativity came in small snippets. I always craved more creative outlets and finally two years ago I decided that I would quit the wide world of work to pursue my interest in designing jewelry. After moving to Arkansas I simply let my interests develop to include writing, photography, painting, knitting, gardening and anything else that may come along. I am not particularly proficient at any of them, but I love learning.
- What do you know now that you did not know when you were thirty? I know more about how to have a good relationship as a wife/lover and as a mother. I think I learned most about loving from my husband and my daughter. From day one he was so totally committed to our marriage and our family (instant daughter) that it was amazing. He helped me be a better mother and a better person because he accepts me and challenges me at the same time.
- At what point did you feel you came into your own as a woman? Well you know I think it was about 40. By then I felt attractive and comfortable in my own skin and with my personal convictions and philosophy. I began an incredible relationship with this wonderful man I married. I had an amazing daughter who brought such a true understanding of love. I really began exploring my spiritual and intellectual life and I moved on to a second career.
- What does it mean to you to stay true to yourself and live an authentic life? I had to think about this a bit. I actually believe that I spent much of my life struggling to reveal my true self. I have always been out of step with the world around me…uncomfortable with my peers…feeling that I did not belong. I was brought up in a conservative Southern environment with conventional thought that prevailed in the 50′s and 60′s. Then the Navy was also conventional and conservative in social and political thought. But, what I was told and taught often did not ring true for me…did not make sense. Things like segregation, “women’s roles”, Christianity as the only true religion, the wickedness of homosexuals, so many attitudes that just didn’t fit for me. My innate sense of what was truly right was constantly battered by a lifetime of being told what was good and bad by people who used fear and rules to inculcate their message. I am ashamed to say that in my younger life I did not speak out as I should have. It was not until my 40s that I really began voicing my dissent, passionately questioning and challenging conventional thought and making some people around me a bit uncomfortable. Now in my 50′s I cannot live any other way. I could no more turn away from living this way than I could turn away from my child.